Okay, I tried and tried to not write this particular post. But like the nightmare of the movie Ground Hog Day, it kept coming back to me, over and over. I didn’t want to write it because by implication it says that some Christians have been just plane stupid and I didn’t want to be seen as airing the families dirty laundry. But since no one who performed this particular stupid Christian trick is named, I decided I had to go for it. Oh and by the way, the Stupid Christian Trick comes from the Stupid Pet Tricks that we often see on variety shows. They are pathetic and you know you shouldn’t watch but some how you just can’t turn away or change the channel. This story is like that for me.
Here is the gist of the thing as reported in the Orlando Sentinel recently (After the Rapture: Man Will Deliver Messages) It seems that one enterprising atheist decided that since he was clearly not going to be taken to Heaven when Jesus returns, that he would make some money off the event. For a small fee you can give him a message, that he promises to deliver to any of your loved ones who are “Left Behind” when Jesus comes back. I have got to give the guy credit for for his entrepreneurial spirit. It is a rather brilliant idea.
I have no problem with an atheist coming up with such a plan and implementing it. My problem is with the response of Christians. The pathetic thing is, people are actually giving the guy money and messages to deliver. Are you kidding me? Folks, when Jesus comes back I am pretty sure that everyone will know about it. Let’s even assume a theological position that says there will be some left behind when Christians suddenly disappear. If in an instant, a billion or so Christians suddenly vanish, do you think anyone is going to need a note passed on to them from an atheist messenger service to explain to them what happened? I am pretty sure that if this particular scenario is what ends up happening, people will figure it out.
But lets assume for a minute that it actually happens that way. What do you suppose our Atheistic Messenger will be doing. My guess is that suddenly confronted by the reality of the Rapture and the Lordship of Jesus, the last thing on his mind will be delivering your message to your loved one. He will be neck deep in his own problems at that point. Not the least of which is that his plan has gone terribly wrong. He was banking on there being no God and no Rapture. Now his whole belief system and world view has come crashing down. Sorry but your message is not getting delivered under those conditions.
Your better bet would be to make sure that you have been a Christ-like servant to the people who you think will be left behind while you were still here. Why not make sure that you personally let them know of their need for Jesus? Why not love them with such a provocative love that they ask you about Jesus and how to be saved? Wouldn’t that be better than trusting in the good graces of a left behind atheist? I suspect that in some ways it is easier to pay the atheist. But I am sure it is not more effective. If nothing else why not just give them a note yourself? Put it in a sealed envelope titled, “Only To Be Opened If I and A Billion Other Christians Suddenly Disappear”. At least you would know that they have it and you would have saved yourself the messenger fee.
Of course there is the whole other issue that the theology of a left behind group is itself suspect. There is a complete other scenario that you can get from the Bible. Simply put it is that once Jesus returns and those who believe in Him are caught up into the air to greet Him that will be it. The end of the age will have come. It’s time to turn out the lights Irene, the Fat Lady is Singing. There is a pretty strong case from God’s Word that when Jesus returns in the clouds it is to return for good, not just to whisk his followers away for a time. But that does not make for a good book series. One volume and the story is over.
Clearly we need to get a lot more of our theology from God’s Word and not fiction. I can only hope!
Dan Lacich: Provocative Christian Living 
I’ve seen a website called The Rapture Letters who offer to do this for you…I feel sorry for the atheist.
Since I live in Colorado I didn’t know about this so Dan, I am glad that you posted it. Do you think perhaps it’s “coming back to you, over and over” might have been some nudges from God??? This just proves that people STILL think it is the power of the almighty dollar that will “save” them. One would think that recent news articles (Bernie Maldorf sp? comes to mind) shows that is not true. One must rely on God to be saved….and His Son, Jesus.
I sometimes wonder if our effort to evangelize is lost on the world simply because those who are supposedly already ‘in the fold’ do not look a thing like the One the are suppose to represent. This post only shows that the church has preached a philosophy not a relationship for way too many years.
This is worst news I have ever read. Why would Christians do such a thing? Let’s love God and be a testimony that our families would see and believe in God. Let’s share the Word of God to our families and friends that we would no longer worry what happens to them during rapture because they’ll surely be with us.
This reminds me of the “pet rocks” sold in the 60’s or 70’s. Everyone knew it wasn’t for real and that it was absolutely crazy. But nevertheless, some people just couldn’t resist.
The surprising thing to me is that there are people who will waste their money on such craziness despite all the headlines about the terrible economy. Surely we can think of SOMETHING better to spend our money on????
I hadn’t heard of this, but had heard of a Christian website with the same promise. Their plan for the rapture would be pretty airtight, if it weren’t completely ludicrous.
http://youvebeenleftbehind.com/index-2.html
It is obvious from your post that you misunderstand many things.
1. The whole point of his site is to point out the gullibility and stupidity of christians. It was specifically designed to see how many christians are actually that stupid and to therefore amuse atheists. And it works as there are many people that stupid and it does both amaze and amuse atheists.
2.The message for those “left behind” is not that the rapture has happened but personal notes to those left behind. Most are along the lines of “Sorry you aren’t with us but as you were a heathen, homosexual, democrat, or whatever the believer feels was the sin that disqualified you from being saved that you were left behind for that reason and they wanted to rub their nose in it. Basically a childish note saying “I was right, you were wrong, nyah nyah nyah nyah 😛 ” Some actually show regret about knowing they’ll never see that friend or relative again. Very few though.
3.You wrote; “If in an instant, a billion or so Christians suddenly vanish” Who are you kidding? No branch of christianity or any other cult believes that any branch other than their own will be saved. Every member of some First Reformed Baptist Church of Hicktown knows that no member of any other branch of any religion will be saved, as do the members of every other branch of every religion.
4. What he is doing is no more ridiculous than when some believer puts a bumper sticker on their car reading “Caution: In case of rapture car will be driverless”. I should add that stickers like this only point out to everyone else that the car owner is an idiot.
5. Your assumption that the messages will not be delivered is very typical of christians. They believe what their preachers have always said, that their religion is the only basis for morals. This is demonstrably wrong. Every person who isn’t blinded by belief has morals because it is the right thing to do, not because they are scared of punishment by some angry god for not doing right. If morals only come from religion how do you explain the fact that in the U.S. alone approximately 13% of people are atheist yet less than 1% of all prisoners are atheist? That displays quite well that the religious are in fact less moral.
The last line of your post is by far the funniest. “Clearly we need to get a lot more of our theology from God’s Word and not fiction.” You silly boy. God’s word IS fiction.
I found this site Googling “stupid christian”. I certainly found one.
p.s. the name betterthangod only implies that as I actually exist and can prove that fact, I am automatically “better than god”.
Dear betterthangod,
I read your comments with a great deal of interest. Let me see if I can clarify a few things since you think that I misunderstand many things
1) You mentioned that the whole point of what this gentleman was doing was to show the gullibility and stupidity of Christians. I would think that the title itself shows that I get that point completely and agree that the Christians who paid money for this service were in fact being gullible and stupid. The title is Stupid Christian Trick, not Stupid Atheist Trick. So as far as I can tell on this one, I get that point. I think you missed my point completely. I will however grant that I may simply have not made the point clearly or effectively.
2) I will grant that there are lots of judgmental people who fit that type that you describe in your second point. I would hope that people who were leaving a note for someone they really cared about would be more heart broken and loving but I know that is not always the case. As for those who are so judgmental and don’t demonstrate the kind of love for a neighbor that Jesus calls us to, all I can do is ask your forgiveness for Christians who have not acted at all Christ-like.
3) Are there groups who think that only “their” group is going to heaven, like First Baptist Church of Hicktown. There certainly are. But to apply that to every group of Christians is simply inaccurate and a gross exaggeration. My own experience coming from studying with Catholics, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists, and Mennonites is that there is far more unity than you give any credit for.
4) You mention that what this guy is doing is no more ridiculous than a bumper sticker that says, “In Case of Rapture this car will be driverless”. For starters I agree that such a bumper sticker is stupid. Maybe that will be a future Stupid Christian Trick of the Month. But again, I was not saying that the atheist holding notes for people was stupid. Somehow you have locked in on that. In fact, I think the guy is brilliant and a good entrepreneur. It is about “stupid Christians” who pay money for something they should do themselves.
5) My assumption that the notes will not be delivered because of some position you think I hold about Non-Christians being incapable of being moral is actually a false assumption on your part. First I don’t believe that you have to be a Christian to do a good and moral thing. In fact I believe that God has put within us an innate understanding of right and wrong. If you read Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason you will see that even this great Non-Christian Philosopher believed that the argument of a universally existent morality was the best argument for the existence of God. You reference to morality among atheists would be something Kant would point to in support of that notion.
But more to the point of the notes note being delivered. I assume the gentlemen in question is a moral individual with a sense of responsibility. However, if the rapture occurs like some people think it will, then the result is pretty much world chaos. Delivering a few notes could easily become a very low priority if the end of the planet is in view. Given that possibility I come back to my point that if someone believes that the rapture will take place in this way, they should not leave it up to someone else to do what they should have done. By the way, I don’t think the whole left behind scenario is what will take place anyway. Thus my point the need to get ones Theology from the Bible and not an intentionally fictional book.
If believing the Bible makes me stupid, well I guess I can live with that.
As a final question, why did you find it necessary to call me stupid in your next to the last sentence? As a help for the future, your argument would have been far more effective if you had not resorted to the name calling that you accuse judgmental Christians of doing. Ad Hominine arguments do nothing to advance discourse and understanding.
Well, maybe that wasn’t my final question. Here it is. Why would you bother to google “stupid christian”. For the life of me I can’t imagine googling “stupid atheist”. It just doesn’t seem to show the kind of respect for another person that I try to show.
Look forward to hearing from you and continuing the dialogue.
Dan
oooooo, betterthangod, not sure that you know WHO you are dealing with. I would point out that following Jesus, the Son of God, is not a religion but a RELATIONSHIP. It is only through His life and death here on earth that one can have a truly good life. Rules? Nah, the “rules” you are looking at are intended to guide us in our life here on earth, pointing toward True Life. In fact, if EVERYONE followed those “rules” there would be peace on the earth. I don’t see the Bible as fiction but rather as a guide for life—and it certainly is the guide that allows all of us “stupid Christians” to know that He is the one to follow. I can’t think that I have ever heard a preacher say that “their religion is the only basis for morals”. What preachers may say is that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life….and ’tis true, my friend. Open your eyes and see the True One. Our God is not an angry god but a Loving God—and He loves you even if you don’t think He can or will. :)+
Dan. If there is any unity between the various branches of christianity other than the fact they all call themselves christians it is kept well hidden, in fact most branches of the faith have the basic tenet that theirs is the true faith and all others are destined for a fiery eternity.
I love that you wrote “all I can do is ask your forgiveness for Christians who have not acted at all Christ-like.” It is one of the thousands of examples of the ability of the faithful to only see what they want to see. Did you mean the Jesus who raised the dead and cured the sick or the Jesus who cursed a Fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season? Jesus the saint or Jesus the idiot. Have you given away or sold all that you own? Somehow I doubt it but why haven’t you? Jesus has specifically told you to.
How do you correlate “Honour your father and mother” with “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” seems to me, and all freethinkers, that no one can be “Christ-like” as even Jesus was nothing like the man you hold him up to be. You have no right to pick and choose. Either the bible is 100% true or it is flawed. If it has any demonstrable errors it is all in doubt. If it is in doubt why believe any of it?
You have based a large potion of your life on a book written by hundreds of people, people with agendas, over hundreds of years, in several languages, often wrongly translated. A book with more inaccuracies would be hard to find. There are hundreds of things, written as facts, that are easily proven wrong.
It is hard for any unindoctrinated thinker to accept that a person who believes such folly is not stupid. I accept calling you stupid was childish. I’m trying to remember to replace all insulting names for the faithful with the simple, accurate “deluded”. sorry. Sometimes I forget.
The reason for the search for “stupid christian” was I was just looking for something to blog about.
Oh, and Carol, you are a fine example of a stupid christian. “a loving God” doesn’t kill millions of people. the God of your bible did. You finish with “and He loves you even if you don’t think He can or will.” well I’m not interested in your subconscious’ attempt to include me in your delusion.
What you don’t seem to get is even if God appeared to me tomorrow proving his existence beyond all doubt, if he was still the God of your bible I would never praise him as he behaves like a schizophrenic genocidal maniac. He is not praiseworthy.
Betterthangod,
First I accept your apology for calling me stupid and appreciate your desire to do the right thing even as you recognize that you are not always able to. I would hope that someone as intelligent as you would then be able to give some slack, or grace if you will, to the less intelligent and deluded Christians when they behave badly.
I don’t know where you get the idea that nearly all branches of Christianity think that the other branches are destined for a fiery eternity. Your experience of and understanding of the Christian world is limited and outdated at best. I have worshiped in numerous countries with Christians from countless different church groups and branches of Christianity and have been blessed time and again with the unity and devotion shown to one another. I am sorry that your experience is clearly different. The basic reason for that is the recognition among those gathered that in spite of differences of culture, language and even interpretation of some points of theology, we are all united by faith in Christ and fully expect to spend eternity together.
You raise some interesting questions about the Bible. Your reading and interpretation of the Bible is more literalistic than the most strict fundamentalist I have ever encountered. The Bible is to be read using the normal laws of literature and communication. As such you need to read a parable as a parable, history as history, poetry as poetry, etc. etc. You fail to to that and fail to recognize the differences. Most of the errors of understanding of the Bible through the years have happened when people have forgotten that basic rule of literary interpretation. One example that you bring up, Honor you father and mother compared to loving Jesus and hating your parents. Even scholars who do not believe the Bible recognize Jesus use of a common Hebraic way of expressing priority by using love and hate. It was never intended as a command for loathing ones parents but as a startling means of showing what has priority. In this case, loving God more than even you love your parents. Again I emphasize that even scholars who do not think the Bible to be God’s Word, deal with this passage in this way and in no way believe that Jesus ever intended otherwise.
You ask if I have sold all my possessions to follow Jesus because he has told me to. Actually he never has. He did tell a specific man that he needed to do so because it was clear that these things interfered with the mans love for God. What Jesus has clearly commanded me is to live sacrificially by giving to others in need which I try to do as best I can. My family pretty consistently gives away more than 10% of our income for the needs of others as well as making our home a place of hospitality for people in need.
Perspective is an amazing thing. You look at the fact that the Bible was written by so many people over so many years as a negative. I see it as an amazing thing considering that so much of it clearly fits together, in spite of it’s many authors.
In your final sentence you say, even if God appeared to me tomorrow proving his existence beyond all doubt, if he was still the God of your bible I would never praise him as he behaves like a schizophrenic genocidal maniac. I would like you to consider this possibility in that scenario. If it was to happen that the God of the Bible did prove to you that he indeed exists, that would prove you wrong on what seems to be one of your most basic and foundational convictions, that God in fact does not exist. If God were to prove you wrong about his existence, is it not also likely that you are wrong in your interpretation of his character and nature? Hypothetically of course.
Dan
Dan, Dan. You are spouting EXACTLY all the same arguments I did during my 46 years as an evangelical Christian (ThB from Multnomah Bible College, missionary in Europe, etc etc). I left it all behind because my mind (my God-given mind if you will) no longer allowed me to accept all the BS that I once believed. IF God exists, he is not the one described in the OT, who seemed to delight in the slaughter of men, women, children, and even livestock, and the splattering of infants brains against rocks! And for that matter, the God of Paul and John, who gladly will send, say, 90% of his children (human beings created “in the image of God) to eternal torture in the fires of hell. Would you do that to you children/parents/girlfriend, for something they did or didn’t believe in their heads (or hearts)? I’ve been reading the Bible again, this time not glossing over the “hard” bits, or allegorizing them away (whatever happened to the Bible being taken literally when Christians try to explain the hard bits???). I am horrified by what I am reading again! I’ve finished with all that crap, and I’ve never felt freer in my whole life! And no, it’s not so I can sin without conscience: I’ve still never been drunk, taken drugs, or had sex with anyone who wasn’t my wife (still married after 35 years!) And don’t give me that claptrap: “you never REALLY received Jesus as your savior.” I received him just as sincerely as you or any other born-again Christian. Why else would I devote 46 years to praying and witnessing and fellowshipping?
But, explain it away I am sure you will, as to admit my experience as valid would invalidate your belief that all born-again Christians are right and will go to heaven, and everyone else (who have “heard the gospel”) will go to hell. I respect your decision to remain a Christian, as much as I wish that Christians would respect my decision to “de-convert”.
betterthangod,
Actually, I would argue that you can’t prove to me that you exist, but feel free to try. 🙂 For now though I suggest you change your name to “possiblybetterthangodbutknowledgeispossiblysubjectivesowellneverreallyknownowwillwenowwouldyoulikeaspotoftea” On a more serious hand though…
Unfortunately, the appearance of disunity amongst christians is largely due to vocal firebrands involved in pedegaugory rather than actual missional relationships. If someone begins spouting how truly holier they are than others, they have missed the most obvious and fundamental truth about grace. Which is understandable, as it’s also the hardest to accept.
The way that you read the Bible is in a manner that I have seen few (ie: like just around zero) serious scholars use. I don’t mean only Christian scholars.
The Luke 14 bit, amongst others, harmonizes with other verses in the Bible. Outside of a complete discussion of writing, language, and culture in the ancient world I’m going to have to simply leave it at that and hope you read up on it a little more.
Or perhaps this…
To truly believe that there are problems in the harmony of the scriptures, to the extent that you assert, means that every christian must simply be absolutely infantile in their reasoning. I mean literally, not as some pithy slight. Either the most educated christian scholars all agree to keep quiet about these problems, or they’re too stupid to realize they are problems.
Or, sufficiently rational explanations exist that just simply don’t jive with your preconditional ideas about the way the world works. It’s ok if that’s the case, as it happens all the time and in more spheres then religious discourse.
Wes…
To be completely without emotion I would say:
That for a time your will was temporary mirroring the surface actions of a will inclined towards God, as it was pleasing to you for a time to act in such a way. As time went on, your will (self-inclined) became perturbed by certain things and eventually continued along it’s way, which happened to lead away from what would more normally be associated with God-like behavior.
With emotion:
Some girls are really fun to date for awhile, and you think you love them (and you mean it) and want to spend the rest of your life with them (and you mean it) and everything is just gravy because we all know what Lennon taught us (that all you need is love I mean, not to imagine stuff).
But then you get to know her a little more, and she’s really kind of a drag. Truth be told, maybe you only loved what you knew about her up to that point and weren’t satisfied with her explanations as to where exactly she was every Friday night. You left, and a burden is lifted off your shoulders.
But, as you said, and as someone with a ThB, I’m sure you already knew that would be the answer. Accepting the existence of Christ and surrending to God are quite obviously not the same thing, but as I’ve said repeatedly, you’re already quite familiar with that claptrap
Your diction confuses me though. Particularly the word “send” when you talk about people ending up in hell. What lead you to conclude that God does the sending?
Firing from the hip now…
Does the answer that you already know people will give bother/upset you? If so, why?
How would the validity of your experience invalidate christian beliefs? Unless, of course. you mean the validity of your conversion, not your conversion experience. I can experience being married, even if it turns out that it wasn’t a valid marriage.
You said you chose to deconvert, and respect peoples decisions to remain converted. When you did believe, did you believe that believe was a choice? And if so, why did you choose to choose/believe so?
Personal questino that you don’t really have to answer? What’s the story on this wife of 35 years (gratz btw) and her current spiritual (or non-spiritual) beliefs?
Dan
Your statement that “The Bible is to be read using the normal laws of literature and communication” shows that you’re aware it is not all meant to be read as historical fact which means you are also aware that every fundamentalist is just plain wrong. Do you put as much effort into pointing out the folly of their ways to them as you do unbelievers? It also shows that you realise that much of it is open to interpretation. Don’t you think a god would be able to author something sensible? Is your god so unintelligent he can’t write more than a few lines without contradicting himself? Or is it that he is incapable of inspiring the human authors to write what he wants written? Or perhaps his intention was specifically to be unclear. None of these options seem very god-like do they?
To claim I don’t know to “read a parable as a parable, history as history, poetry as poetry, e.t.c.” fails to take into account that neither do theological scholars as they disagree on damn near everything in the bible. There is only a little real history and that is so intertwined with lies it is impossible to tell what actually happened and what didn’t. There are many stated facts which are just plain wrong.
@ agameofstones
You said “every christian must simply be absolutely infantile in their reasoning”. Well, yes that is exactly what I am stating, but only in regard to those who actually read and attempt to reason about the bible. Most christians take their little bite-sized helpings of supposed spirituality spoon-fed to them by their pastors and never really sit and read and attempt to understand the book as a whole.
The point is that your religion is based on a book. A book full of falsehoods, flaws, mistranslations and borrowed myths. There is very little of it that makes any sense and very little of it is original. There is not now , nor has there ever been a reasonable, sensible or rational reason to believe any of it. How can a “sacred” book have identifiable errors?
When there is no more religion people of the future will note this in their history books as the beginning of the age of reason, where we refer to a small part of the last millennium as the dark ages in five or ten millennia from now they will look back on these few millennia B.C.E. as the “superstitious ages” and laugh at the stupidity of their forebears.
Oh and for those commenting on the name betterthangod, It is my user name in wordpress only because EvilGod was already in use. EvilGod is my user name in dozens of forums and hundreds of sites. I think of it as a short way of saying your god is unpraiseworthy and meets the textbook definition of evil. betterthangod is simply the statement that I exist and am therefore better-than-god, I don’t inspire hatred, torture, mutilation, genocide e.t.c. so am therefore better-than-god. I could go on but you get my point.
agameofstones:
Thanks for your civil reply, and reasonable questions. Although I don’t have a lot of time right now for fully detailed reply, let’s just start with your last question. I met her while working as a missionary in London. She, at 16, “gave her life to Jesus”, and after years in ministry and witnessing to lots and lots of people, and 35 years of marriage, she is pretty much at the same point as I am: there may well be a “God”, Jesus probably existed, and spirituality definitely exists.
But the set of doctrines and teachings known as evangelical christianity? Made up by those early followers who had the most power and influence, written down decades after Jesus died. (And remember, Jesus never once hinted that his followers should start a new religion based on his teachings!)There is substational evidence that John puts lots of words in Jesus’ mouth, that he never actually spoke, including the ubiquitous John 3:16ff. And I will not allow the stuff I used to spout: “But knowing Christ is a relationship, not a religion”. By the definition of every single dictionary ever written, evangelical christianity is a religion, as much as evangelicals HATE that word!
And regarding “sending” people to hell: another bit of evangelical double-speak, just like George Orwell. If I commit a crime, a judge sends me to jail, I don’t go there myself. Even if I did walk into a police station and confess to a crime, I would still have to be charged and tried. I know what you are saying (of course, I used to say it myself)that people who knowingly reject Jesus as their saviour accept their own ticket to hell. To me, this is the single most absurd, illogical, load of BS in the whole package of beliefs I used to subscribe to. You cannot, no matter how much double-speak and backwards logic is employed, square a “God of Love” with a God who tortures people eternally for what they believe in their hearts and minds (or fail to believe). When people do that to each other, we call it “The Inquisitions” or “The Holocaust” or something else equally horrific. And yet it’s OK for God to do that exact same thing!! And from a loving heavenly Father! If I patterned my fatherhood after that, my two sons would have condemned to eternal torture for not believing something correctly . . . actually, Leviticus does say that any children who curse their parents should surely be put to death. Beautiful thoughts, there in Leviticus!
“betterthangod” above summarizes a lot of what I am beginning to find to be far more plausible than evangelical theology. I was always dismissive of “higher criticism” because we were taught that would undermine our faith. Now, as I read a lot of these books (Marcus Borg, John Shelby Spong, Bruce Bawer, etc) I see a lot of serious scholarship which doesn’t run frightened from empirical evidence like most evangelical apologists do.
that’s all for now . . .
Oh, and I know you probably see this, but the analogy about me committing a crime and a judge sentencing me to prison: the crime the evangelical God is accusing humankind of is merely “thought-crime”, exactly as in George Orwell. “No accept Jesus in your heart and repent of your sins, no heaven for you!”
i think he would want to deliver the messages since it’s very likely the occurrence of the rapture would make him a believer.
Thanks Mark for showing that christians continue to assume that nobody can have morals without being a christian. I know that this is what you are taught, that your religion is the basis for morals, but there has never been any evidence to support this belief. Morals existed before your religion did and they will continue to exist long after it has died out.
Non Christians, whether they be atheist or simply from other religions who have morals do so because they choose to have morals because it is the decent thing to do not because they are scared of the consequences of not following their little book’s rules.
This post has countless grammatical errors.
Ted,
Thanks for the heads up. I wrote that one in a bit of a rush, being so stunned by the topic, and never went back to edit. Hopefully I caught the major errors this time.
Dan
give me the money and the message, i will burn the message because it is wasted and i will
keep the money from the stupid christians. that’s a good thing to do to christian idiots, i will
remembers this if i ever need some cash, thank you for that.
Ladystardust,
I am curious about your religious convictions. Do you put yourself in the atheist camp or is there something else that you hold to.
Dan
Personally, I believe it is a moral crime to allow stupid people to keep their money. If a person is dumb enough to believe that THEY, and ONLY others EXACTLY like them are going to be sucked up by His holy shop-vac, then they sorta had it coming.
Oh, and by the way, the only evidence of people vanishing, was the pix of empty clothes laid out. And, no, they were not real. Actually it was hilarious.
Ummm . . . just to point out to non-christians, the ‘rapture’ is a fairly new idea to christianity made popular by a series of exciting books. A LOT of christians do not believe in the rapture. Also, one thing that I, and many other people believe is that Hell is not eternal fire and suffering. I agree, that it would be pretty awful if people burned forever and ever and ever for unbelief, even if they were great people in their lifetime. And I, personally, would not even sentence someone like Hitler to ETERNAL hell. Maybe a thousand years per person who suffered . . . you get the idea. (Someone who actually lived through the holocaust might likely disagree with me, understandable I think.) And If I, a mere human, are capaple of mercy, how much more God?
Something that I have been discovering through my studies is that immortality is not given to everyone, why should the “bad guys” get to live forever too? When Jesus comes on the clouds we will go up to meet him yes, but then we will lead him back to earth, welcoming Him as our Lord and King. (If you read Paul’s words with the history of his time there, whenever Caeser would come a delegation would go out to meet him and then bring him back into the city, they didn’t all just abandon the city.) God will renew and restore creation, changing our flawed bodies in the twinkling in an eye into something wonderful, with something of our old selves still there (like how a grain of wheat turns into a whole head of wheat). Now in this new and wonderful creation we hardly want ax murderers running around, do we? So they will cease to exist. Would they even want to live in a world with a God that they see is evil? If I take betterthangod as an example, he/she would not want to live with God, no matter what. So if they would rather take oblivion, its up to them. It says that when Jesus comes, that at his name every knee will bow. Perhaps there is a last chance for people to decide if they want to life in God’s kingdom and live forever in Him, or to fade away. Jesus gave the criminal hanging on the cross next to him forgiveness, and if that’s not a deathbed conversion I don’t know what is. Perhaps we will get a raised-to-life-for-judgement-conversion as well. (I hope so!)
Our time on earth as Christians is to bring in Christ’s Kingdom, to spread the good news that the King is on His way (not to punish us, but to deliver us! Think how in the fictional Robin Hood they were eagerly waiting for King Richard to save them from evil prince John), and to live as Christ did.
The Bible says that those who die in Christ will live in heaven, but it does not say that those who die apart from him will live in hell until he comes again. A lot of what we think we know about New Testament Hell is superstition that needs to be tossed out the window so we can find out the truth about heaven and ‘hell’. There are many more learned authors and scholors than I, so if you want to know more, I’d look to them.
Christians are starting to change their message as well, they are not screeching in the streets to “repent or you’ll burn!” (Well, some still are, lol.) Christians are calling for you to join them in God’s Kingdom, where there will be no more suffering, no more tears. We want everyone to come and join us there!
One last point to make, we’ve only had 2000 years to work on our ‘religion’, we are still ‘early Christians’! We are also, only human, we make a lot of mistakes. Reading the Bible and looking at Jesus you see a man who was selfless, a servant, and a man who loved others deeply. That is what we, as Christian’s, want to be, but its hard you know.
Betterthangod, if you are truly curious to know the truths that unite Christianity as a whole, try reading CS Lewis’ ‘Mere Christianity’, which gives a picture of what we believe without all the superficial extras we mere mortals like to tack on. Another good book would be NT Wrights ‘Simply Christian’. If nothing else you can use the books for more ammo on your blog about ‘stupid Christian’s’, lol.
Anyway, this is rather long, and I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth.
And just to clarify, I think the wicked will be punished for their sins, I’m not just so sure that it will be in a roasting pit for eternity.
Brilliant idea on how to make money of the stupidity and ignorance of blinded, mindless idiots that are known as American fundamental christians.